Christine Saxman: As you both know, I have always struggled with being kind of righteous in my anti-racism work as a white person. I name that as whiteness! The competitiveness that comes up in me…. 

I think about how intentional I have to be, myself, to not allow that righteousness to take over, and to recognise that I was once also early in my journey. There was a time for me, too, when I first realised that racism was really real, not just in an abstract somewhere-else kind of way, but here.